Frank
Thank you for joining us.
This is episode 47 of Amateur 3D Podcast, a podcast by amateur printers for amateur printers, where we share our thoughts and experience.
Our panelists this week are me, Franklin Christensen, and my friends, Andy Cottam, Kevin Buckner, and Chris Weber.
Kevin
Hello.
Frank
Hello.
Andy
Hello.
How’s everybody doing?
Frank
I’m vertical.
Kevin
I’m good.
How are you?
Andy
Vertical is a good thing.
Frank
Yeah.
Vertical is a good thing.
Kevin
Yep.
Frank
Uh-huh.
I don’t know.
Chris
Landscape
Frank
There was a part of me that was just expecting more chitchat.
Why don’t we just jump into it, since it seems like some of us have got stuff to do.
Andy
I’m sorry.
I usually speak up, but it seems like we always walk on top of each other, so I made a mental effort this time, and I’m trying not to step on anybody, and I think everybody did the same thing.
Frank
Maybe.
Chris
Okay, Andy.
Just go.
Go.
Just go.
Frank
Yeah, what he said.
Go.
Andy
Okay.
So, what I did this week, not a lot.
After our last podcast, we talked about, or I had mentioned that my dishwasher was dripping on me downstairs when I was doing the laundry, and so after the podcast, I went…
Frank
I don’t remember hearing that, but continue.
Andy
Did I not say that?
Chris
I think you mentioned it.
Andy
If I didn’t.
Kevin
Anyway, continue.
Andy
I did.
Yes, it was dripping on me.
After the podcast, I went upstairs to see if I could figure out what was going on.
I pulled the dishwasher out and examined it a little bit, and it looked like the valve, the main valve, was leaking somewhere on it, about two or three drips a second.
It was actually pretty bad, and so I pulled the valve off with it still having pressure, and to examine it a little bit better to see if there’s a fitting just needs to be tightened down or a seal replaced or what, that valve’s got a solenoid around part of the valve to trigger it, and that little stem that it goes around has started to tear away from the rest of the plastic valve, and it was leaking from there.
Trouble is, it’s made out of that white plastic that seems to go really brittle over time.
While I was playing with it, I made it a lot worse while I was trying to figure out where it was leaking, and it started to spray, spray.
When I built my kitchen, one of the things that the wife convinced me to do, and I think it’s a great idea looking back, is that instead of putting all of our chemicals, our cleaners and stuff under the sink, let’s put the chemical cleaners and stuff in an overhead cabinet, and then use the under the sink for our large pots and pans.
Chris
That’s how you keep kids out of the chemicals.
Andy
No kidding, and it seems to make great sense too, because if there’s any leaking that goes on under the sink, it’s just going to fill a pot, which can be cleaned out, it’s not going to destroy wood or anything.
Frank
You don’t have to look very far to find a pot to have it drain into in the first place.
Chris
Yeah, we do something similar, but we just have a used towel bin that we put under the sink, but yeah, a similar idea, a very good idea.
Andy
So anyway, I rip out all the pots and pans from under the sink there to get to the shutoff valve so I could turn it off so that the dishwasher won’t stop spraying all over the place, because it’s hooked to the hot water there under the sink.
I’ve got a little three-way above the valve that tees off for the dishwasher.
So I get behind there, and I try turning the valve, and guys, I have failed as a homeowner.
I know every year when you go and drain your water heater and stuff like that, that one of the things you should be doing too is going around, turning off these valves back on again, make sure they’re still in good work and order.
I haven’t done that for like three or four years under the sink.
It’s just a habit that I’ve grown out of.
So it was seized.
Frank
Wait, wait, wait.
You drain your hot water heater every year?
Chris
Yeah, yeah, you’ve got to get the sediment out of the bottom of it.
Frank
My parents never did that.
Chris
Yeah.
Frank
Kevin’s looking at us like you’ve got three heads, so I’m assuming that he doesn’t do that either.
Kevin
I mean, I know I’m supposed to, but I don’t.
Andy
Check the anode every couple of years, too, on the water heater.
Chris
Guilty as charged.
Andy
But yeah, they formed the little balls, and so you know the whole joke of whenever you go and replace a water heater, how even with it drained, it’s really, really heavy.
That’s all the sediment buildup.
You can avoid that by just flushing it every year.
Chris
And they last longer if you do that, too.
Andy
Yeah, and one thing I’ve noticed, though, is that the valves they make for the bottom there are really super cheap, so you’re probably not going to get many years out of it before the valve itself starts to leak because, I don’t know, the one I’ve got on mine was just plastic garbage.
I wound up putting on a nice brass one on it and been in love every sense when I go to undo it.
Chris
Well, I bought a nice name brand, Reem, for both of them that I’ve had, and they’ve had that nice brass ones.
Andy
Oh, nice.
Nice.
That’s good.
That’s good.
Well, back when I bought this, I was definitely going for as cheap as I can because I wasn’t making a whole lot of money.
But looking back, and that also leads to another problem.
When I put together this house, when I bought my home, it was condemned, couldn’t live in it.
It was pretty piss-poor condition.
There was a huge hole in the floor where the refrigerator was, where the water damaged for that whole section of the floor had to be replaced.
There was a lot of little things like that, but there were good things about it.
Since all the drywall and stuff was damaged and torn out, you could see the wood really well.
And the attic, the roof had never leaked.
There was no sign of any water damage from the roof.
It was all just…
Yeah, it was interior damage, like the drywall being carpets being messed up and things like that.
So it wasn’t livable when I got it.
So when we did get it and get it back to where it should be, I wasn’t making a lot of money and I did cheapen out on a lot of things that looking back now, now knowing better, I shouldn’t have.
One of those things is all the shutoff valves I used for under the sink.
They were kind of cheap.
The housing for the valve is in pretty okay condition.
They’re pretty sturdy, not many complaints about them.
And they’re ball valves, they still seem to function really well, but the handles on these are that cheap plastic garbage, just like what the valve for the dishwasher was made out of.
They become brittle and all that.
And if you’re not exercising those valves once a year, they can get a little bit on the hard side to get started, and that’s why I encountered under my sink.
So I started turning it with not a whole lot of pressure, just tore that plastic handle right off of the valve.
It just twisted right through.
The keyed part of the valve on the plastic just rounded right off when I tried turning it.
Frank
Re-keyed the handle.
Chris
It lasted almost 20 years.
Andy
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it hadn’t had really needed to be shut off for the last, like what, seven or eight years when I last did the faucet.
So that was the last time I had turned it off.
And I’ve been exercising the handles, turning them off and back on a couple of times a year, but I haven’t done that over the last three or four years.
So I’m going to make that change, and that’s going to get back on the docket because it caused me problems.
That’s what doing that was supposed to prevent this issue, where now I’ve got water spraying out a lot out of that valve of the dishwasher, just spraying onto the side of a cabinet, onto the floor.
And I’m trying to find ways to shut it off, tore everything out, broke the valve under the sink.
And then so I ran downstairs to turn off our service main for the whole house.
Got that shut down.
Now I’ve got a expansion tank on my water system.
It’s just a little two gallon one, but that means for two gallons, the house stays…
Chris
You’ve still got another two gallons going through the pipes.
Andy
Yeah.
The entire house stays…
Chris
Plus the volume of the pipes.
Andy
Yeah.
So I’m running around flushing toilets and turning on sinks down to prevent that pressure.
Once the pressure drops, I can go upstairs and I’m looking at the damage, grabbing a mop, cleaning up the water mess and stuff, but this whole story revolves around 3D printing for this.
Once I was done, now the dishwasher’s valve needed to be replaced.
I ordered another one, had it overnighted, put it in, no problems there.
But that handle under the sink.
That was not the first time one of those handles had broken on me.
Downstairs in the basement here, when I was exercising them properly, it had seized up a little bit.
When I broke it loose, I’d broken the handle, but I wasn’t needing to shut anything off at that time.
I was just working the valves to make sure it was still functioning.
And so what I did, this is two or three years ago, right when I first got my 3D printer I designed a new handle for that valve, printed it out of ABS and put it on.
And it worked beautifully down here.
It was a great solution and it was better quality than the handles that came with them.
Chris
That’s saying something.
Frank
Is it though?
The handmade or the handcrafted thing is often, not always, but often going to be better than the commercial thing that you purchase.
Andy
I would agree with you, but not when it comes to 3D printing, I think.
A lot of the stuff that we design here just can’t match the strength that you’re going to encounter with a molded part.
And since most of the plastics we use are molded, then it’s hard to compete against that.
But when you get something that’s designed out of poor plastic, like in my case, or a bad design, I think those cases, we could definitely build something that’s better than the original.
So I go upstairs when I’m all done here.
I’ve got that model still.
It’s just sitting in a folder in my 3D printed stuff.
It’s saved as an STL, just ready to go.
And so I come upstairs and I needed to shut off the valve so I could turn the water back on the rest of the house.
So I went outside, grabbed a crescent wrench, because I didn’t want to use a pair of pliers on the valve, and got that shut off, turned the water back on the house, and then got to the 3D printer and reprinted a brand new handle for it.
So it was like 35 minutes or something, because some of it was printed solid.
Every, all the plastic around that keyed area, I printed solid plastic, and then the rest was 20% infill.
That way it would have the strength around the key, and popped it back on there, tightened it down.
Chris
Should have just used a pipe wrench, like a normal idiot.
Andy
Just grabbed a pair of pliers, like a normal, and twisted it to destroy it all over.
Frank
And then just attach some vice grips to it, and leave it alone.
Andy
Yeah.
Yeah.
I’m kidding.
Chris
Solder some vice grips right to it, and done.
Frank
Don’t even solder it.
The vice grips will hold on just fine.
Kevin
Right?
I mean, that’s, it’s in their name.
Vice grips.
Just clamp on there.
Andy
So you know, just sitting back, just admiring that situation.
I had a need of a part, and was able to run one off in 30 minutes, you know?
It just worked exactly like the way I think 3D printers are meant for.
It was a really neat moment.
Especially since I already designed the piece, and all I had to do was find it, because there’s a lot of stuff that I’ve made.
That folder’s pretty hectic, and I didn’t name things the best, so it took a minute to find it, but.
Chris
Having fixed your printer in the last couple of weeks, it’s probably pretty, pretty cool that you’re like, okay, I have a need, and I can fix it now.
Andy
Yes.
Chris
And instead of, ah, my printer’s broken.
Hey, Chris.
Andy
Yeah.
Yeah, no kidding.
But it was, it was a good experience.
It was a, it was a good reminder of why I have a 3D printer as a, as a main tool in my household to keep things working.
So.
Frank
Accepted.
Andy
That’s, that was my experience with the 3D printer.
Other than that, it sat pretty quiet this whole time.
I am, I think I’m talking myself out of getting an SLA printer.
The more I think about it, the more I’m worried about the chemical smell and stuff like that.
So I don’t, I’m not going to make plans.
I’m sure it’s just going to be one of those times when I am excited about it, I’m going to get one.
And then, then I will worry about everything else.
But until then, I think I’m going to put it off.
Chris
Okay.
But timing is everything when it comes to getting a 3D printer on the cheap.
We show often when various manufacturers are discontinuing a line, you’ll get a really good deal.
Andy
Yeah.
And I did look at, because you guys pointed me to that for, is that make, no, who’s going out over this last week?
Kevin
It was Anycubic.
Andy
Yeah.
Anycubic and their mono series, right?
Kevin
Yeah.
Andy
Yeah.
I did check those because of the good deal that you recommended I do.
And I, when I was looking around, that was not the printer that I was settling on wanting.
So it was seemed like about a 50 bucks more.
I can get a lot more of what I was looking for.
And so that’s probably adds to the reason why I didn’t jump on it this last week and get one.
That’s not, not that the prices are bad or anything like that.
It’s, you know, when I bought my 3D printer, that old Tivo, that was an open entry printer, you know, and looking back, gosh, if I had to redo the whole thing again, I would definitely have gotten a CoreXY printer right off the bat, you know, it would have been an extra couple hundred bucks, but oh, there would have been so much nicer if by the time I got to this point in my printer’s life to have had, you know, the different kinematic path.
But and I don’t want to make that same, not really a mistake, but I want to prevent that with an SLA printer by buying, making the best guess I can and not just buying a cheap one.
Frank
So that’s kind of what experience is all about, right?
Making better decisions based off of previous decisions.
Not necessarily even bad decisions, just not great decisions.
Chris
What? Learning from yourself?
We don’t need that.
Frank
That explains a lot, Chris.
What was the other one?
There was something about creating an unnecessary sense of need, I would say, make the decision based off your experience in this, and it’s probably the right one.
Andy
Trying to, but SLA is doing the same weird things that FDM printers have done where they put their testing out options that aren’t necessarily the best way to do things.
Like one of the things I discovered for SLA that seems to be a pretty big complaint that I should avoid is a ball style attachment for the bed.
If I could find one that uses two separate hinge points, that’s a lot more stable than getting the ball style ones.
And so it’s like that limit that that takes that, you know, a lot of those off of it.
But then a lot of these new printers that are using that design that I really like are doing auto bed leveling, which from everything I’ve read so far, not a good thing.
It’s worse than auto bed leveling for FDM.
So yeah, and auto bed leveling for FDM works great for people, but you see people who are more into it, more printing regularly, you’re not really seeing that many auto level beds.
They’re still seeing the old traditional ones because it’s what is the most reliable of situations, you know, then getting the automatic ones.
So.
Frank
Well, and Kevin has talked quite a bit about his ball style bed leveling.
Andy
Yeah.
And I don’t think he’s mentioned too many problems with his, haven’t you?
Kevin
I haven’t had any problems with bed, uh, tramming.
Andy
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tramming.
Excuse me.
Yeah.
Kevin
Like none.
That’s great.
I’ve also kind of gotten the impression that it’s not as sensitive to an imbalance as what FDM is because once you get one layer, it’s, yeah…
Kevin
yeah, it’s, it’s pretty solid.
So like, I, I think that’s the reason they’re doing it that way is that, uh, it works
Frank
right.
Andy
Yeah.
Kevin
And it works well for what you get.
I mean, because it’s not like, it’s not like with other, um, ball style joints where you have to keep it a little loose so that you don’t damage anything because you just crank it down and it doesn’t move.
Andy
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, that’s good to hear.
Chris
Good.
Good bed.
Stay.
Kevin
Right.
Andy
What’s your thoughts on this?
One of the things I came across was, um, I like having a larger bread, a larger bed printer.
You know, I’ve got the 300 by 300 of my FDM, and I did, I wanted to make sure that I gave myself the same options with SLA, but SLA’s got a weird hiccup where I like to print a lot of small things.
And if I’m printing something big, I’m probably going to use the FDM to do it.
But there doesn’t seem to be much of a, there, there are disadvantages to buying too big of a bed where an FDM, the only disadvantage is really the price.
You know, um, you can still print small things on a large bed FDM with, with no problems as compared to a small bed FDM, but, but SLA, I know like there’s a certain amount of, of a resin that you need to have in the vat for it to even start to function.
So with large bed ones, you tend to have a point where it’s like, you’ve got to have a half bottle at all times to even get it to start kind of situations.
Frank
So I can see that being a big issue with a larger SLA, just because volume to get depth is so much more.
Andy
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I’m even considering there like, well, maybe actually getting a larger bed SLA printer may not be what would work well for me.
And actually a better thing might be a smaller, a smaller bed one, you know, something around the 100 millimeter to 150 millimeter range, kind of like what you got right now, Kev.
Kevin
Yeah.
Of course, that all being said, I recently saw an ad for this, for a larger SLA printer with an 8K screen, it’s like a 10.3 inch screen, and I was like, I was drooling over it.
It was $400 though.
So I was like, I can’t really justify that.
But that night, that night I had a dream wherein I got it and I was able to print like large miniatures.
I did air quotes over the miniatures.
Chris
Wow.
And that’s like three quarters of the size of my SLA bed, I think, you know, like.
Kevin
Your FDM.
Chris
I mean, so the.
I’m sorry.
Yeah.
My FDM bed.
Sorry.
Kevin
Yeah.
The build dimensions on this thing were like 228 by 135.
Andy
Okay.
Frank
That’s huge.
Chris
Yeah.
Chris
That’s big for an SLA.
Yeah.
Kevin
It’s enormous.
Chris
It’s like my bed is 220 by 220.
So that is literally, you know, two thirds of the size of my FDM bed.
Andy
Yeah.
Chris
Which is something.
The size of my tablet.
Kevin
Mine too.
Frank
I guess once again, the detail goes to what are you going to use it for?
Kevin
Right.
Frank
Right.
Chris
Yeah.
Kevin
Dragons.
Frank
Since Andy’s been talking about small prints and he wants a higher resolution for things like fittings and that sort of thing.
He doesn’t need the big surface area to do those things.
Kevin
Right.
Andy
I think I might benefit from being able to not waste much resin and things like that by having a, I think that would benefit me more than being able to print larger things because I would, I don’t print models like Kev does and things like that.
So if I’m printing something big, chances are I don’t need it to be SLA.
So every time I’ve ever wanted SLA, it’s always been something smaller.
Frank
At the very least, you don’t need the resolution necessarily anyway.
Andy
For the large things.
Yeah.
Kevin
Right.
Chris
I should make a few small prints so that my wife’s dragon collection has something to eat.
Andy
Hey, there you go.
You could get some models of some devastation, some knights that have been cut down and chewed in half and stuff like that and just arrange them around her models.
Chris
Kind of want to do that.
Andy
I think she would love that.
Kevin
I’m pretty sure you’ll always be able to find a fairly small resin printer for a hundred bucks.
Like Creality right now has their halot, I think is how it’s pronounced for a hundred dollars.
Chris
Insert a shameless plug here.
Andy
I was looking at some of the Elegoo Mars ones actually.
I really like Elegoo as a brand.
Yeah.
Everything I’ve ever bought from them has been top notch and I think they’re even just one of those Chinese companies that aren’t they that are out of country.
Chris
Korean.
Andy
I’m not sure where they’re from, but I don’t think they’re from here.
Either way, their quality has been really good for the products I’ve received from them.
Kevin
Yeah.
Andy
Some people have had problems with them, but that makes me want to lean towards the Saturn or Mars or one of their types of 3D printers because they seem to be dumb pipes for as far as a printer goes.
Made out of components that are easily replaced, easy to get off the shelf kind of stuff.
Chris
Sounds Korean.
Kevin
Yeah.
Andy
Part I like.
Kevin
I have a friend who uses an Elegoo Mars.
He’s got it set up in his garage.
I think he’s got a space heater out there for when he’s actually using it because even though it’s not heat dependent, you don’t want it to get too cold because that will cause problems.
Kevin
Yeah.
Let me ask you this.
When it comes to the cleaning station, I’m going to want to get a cure and clean station, right?
That probably will work better for the amount of room I have, get one of those combo units.
Is there anything I have to worry about when it comes to size?
Do I just got to make sure the size, the max size of components it says it can do would be equivalent to what the largest thing the printer could do?
Is that all I really have to worry about?
Kevin
Yep.
Andy
Okay.
That makes it simple.
Chris
Yep.
Okay.
The Eligoo is Chinese.
Yep.
Okay.
Andy
Is it Chinese?
Chris
Yep.
Andy
What about when it comes to the alcohol in it?
Do you have to take the alcohol out of the cleaner or does it just live in the cleaner or is that only like a semi storage area for the alcohol inside of it or?
Kevin
So I just keep the alcohol in the cleaning container and then when it gets too sludgy with resin, I actually have two containers so I’ll let it settle, I’ll let the sludge settle out and then I’ll decant the alcohol into the other container and clean out the bottom and then have that one ready for when I need to clean it out.
Andy
Okay.
So you got like two sets of alcohol that you change or let it settle out or something?
So I’ve got two containers but I only have one of them in use at any given time.
Andy
Okay.
Okay.
So is it emptied into the cleaning machine itself?
It’s not really a machine like that you put cleaning fluid in.
You’ve got containers of the alcohol that you put on top of the machine and it’s got a magnetic rotor thing in it that spins really fast to agitate the alcohol and there’s an impeller in the bottom that stirs it up when the magnetic thing rotates.
Andy
Okay.
So it’s just a stirer.
So it’s a curing station that’s got a stirer on it that you can put your stuff on top of and let it wash it that way.
Kevin
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
That makes sense.
Frank
Something to agitate the cleaning solution.
Andy
Okay.
If I was to not be using the printer very much, would it be better to have the alcohol put away into a bottle so it doesn’t evaporate and things?
Kevin
It’s got an airtight seal on the top.
Andy
Oh, okay.
Okay.
So yeah, it just sounds like just leaving it even though you don’t use it very often just as long as you do the normal cleaning routines when it needs it would cover that, huh?
Kevin
Yep.
Andy
Okay.
That’s good.
I’m kind of worried about that.
Yeah.
I don’t know.
See, now I’m leading again towards thinking I should just grab one and have it set up, print off a couple of test prints so I can make sure it started, make sure it’s working and then be good for when I actually need one.
Chris
Yeah.
Kevin
Yeah.
Frank
Well, personally, I like waffles.
I just don’t like waffling on decisions.
When I get to the point where I’m not waffling anymore, that’s when I stick to it, I think.
But to each their own.
Chris
Sometimes when you sit on the fence, you get a picket up your butt.
Kevin
That’s true.
Frank
Yeah.
So, Kevin, have you worked on anything this week?
Kevin
Yes, I have.
So I cleaned up and cured the things that I had printed for my son’s friend.
So he actually wanted us to fully cure the one that failed so that he could practice on it because he wants to paint it, he wants to do a good job.
Then I am currently on the FDM printing some walls, some dungeon walls that kind of interlock and will help hold the floor pieces in place for the D&D games.
And I’m also thinking of how I can use these for the nightmare chess set.
And then I thought I was done printing all the pieces for the Black Army.
And then I went and looked at some of the cards and realized I still had to find a paladin and a champion and a crab.
And so I found those and I printed those for the Black Army and that’s what I have done this week.
Chris
Wow.
Andy
Sounds like you’ve been busy with it.
Kevin
Yep.
I’ve been busy looking at what I can use for the White Army.
Andy
Nice.
Chris
Well, maybe you start with a cracker.
Kevin
Start with a what?
Chris
A cracker.
You know, 3D print a cracker.
Okay.
That was a bad joke.
Frank
Like a Ritz cracker because Chris is funny.
Chris
But looks don’t count for everything.
Frank
Well, it’s a good thing when we’re doing a podcast there, Chris.
Chris
Yeah.
Yeah.
Andy
Everybody knows how visual or audio podcasts tend to be.
Frank
Yeah.
But Chris has definitely got a face for radio.
Andy
Oh.
Don’t get it fixed eventually, give it a break.
Frank
So is that the extent of it there, Kevin, just resituating for the rest of your dungeon chess and helping your son’s friend?
Cool.
Chris.
Wow.
I don’t normally brain fart like that.
I’ve known this guy for 15 years and I just had to think about his name.
It’s one of those days.
Chris, what have you done this week?
Chris
So I was playing around with printing the articulated dragon a little bit again.
Still having a little bit of issues.
Turns out.
I needed to do a couple of things because normally when I import an STL Cura is pretty good about having it in a nice printable position.
I didn’t hit the lay flat button on this model.
So it was having a little bit of an issue with that.
So yeah.
Yeah.
I needed to do that before I sliced it.
So now the bottom is sticking okay the way it should be, but still getting a little bit of the under extrusion stuff.
So I’m going to be probably switching out the nozzle, cleaning it up a little bit, seeing what I can do about that, but I did buy some aquanet hairspray.
Andy
Oh, you bought actual aquanet?
Chris
Yeah.
Andy
Oh, hopefully that works for you better than it worked for me.
Chris
So I’m going to start using it when I start having a little bit of adhesion issues.
When they pop up with poor, I think like sometimes I sometimes I’ll get some poor, poor plastic that won’t stick to my bed very well.
So I’ll have some hairspray for those, those times.
Andy
Okay, that’s good.
Well, I’ve heard a lot of people praise aquanet and even though my experiences have been quite different, hopefully it will work.
If it turns out it’s not doing what you want it to do, don’t give up on that.
I’ll try to get some bRav four that’s been working really well for me to you for you to try, but either way, hopefully that solves the adhesion issues for you because they did seem to work two totally different ways too.
Chris
Oh, you used a different kind?
Andy
Yes.
Yes.
I don’t use aquanet.
When I tried aquanet, that was like because I used to praise that because I hear everybody talk about aquanet and that it’s got, you know, that plastic in it.
And so the stuff I’ve been using has just been Walmart’s cheap brand that Rav four.
And at one point I figured I better try aquanet.
Maybe it will be even better than what I’m currently using.
And so I got some actual aquanet and it doesn’t, it didn’t work nearly as good as the Rav four.
It still was working, but not nearly as good.
So it could have been just my, because like back on the podcast, I even went and apologized to everybody saying, you know, I’ve been preaching about, you know, using hairspray and mentioning aquanet, but here I went and actually tried it and I’m not going to buy it ever again.
Chris
Right.
Andy
I’m going to stick with this Walmart brand stuff
Chris
but you don’t have a textured bed, right?
Yours is a flat plate glass.
Andy
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Chris
And my bed is textured.
So maybe Aquanet will work pretty well for my textured bed.
Andy
Yeah.
Chris
I guess we’ll find out.
Andy
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But if it doesn’t, let’s try some of the Rav four.
It was really different compared to the Aquanet.
Chris
Yeah.
But yeah, I’ve also been again, spending the summer remodeling the bedroom for the child.
So most of my free time this week was doing some of that.
And I got to tell you, so I got my hands on some fi… on some, some foam insulation, like not the spray stuff.
It’s actual blocks of foam.
And so I ran them on my table saw and I got to tell you, man, I really, really wish I’d had that vacuum set up that Frank’s got on his table saw.
Andy
Oh, I bet, I bet cutting like that.
Is that like that blue block foam stuff?
Chris
Yeah.
Yeah.
Except it’s yellow, but yeah.
Andy
Okay.
Yeah.
There’s definitely something about that as soon as you start sawing it, it just goes everywhere.
Chris
Yeah.
I haven’t used my table saw very much since I put it on, but it’s been nice the few times I have.
Like just seeing the funnel work the way it’s supposed to dumping everything into the bucket.
So.
Chris
Yep.
I’ve got to go wash down my driveway later today because of that.
Frank
That’s tough.
Chris
So hey, you’ve been doing anything there, Frank?
Frank
I’ve had an interesting week and a lot of it doesn’t necessarily have to do with my printer.
Andy
Priorities.
Frank
I voiced in our chat that I figured out what my problem was with the under extrusion.
Andy
Yeah.
Yeah.
Frank
I did everything I could to make sure that the plastic was good, and I assumed that it was with everything I was changing, and I just couldn’t get it dialed in just right.
And after a month and a half of trying to get this thing to meet my expectations, I put a different spool in and my under extrusion issues went away.
Andy
Oh, geez.
All that work.
Frank
I actually reset my configurations, all of my speeds and flows and temperatures, I reset them all to the Cura default, figured okay, let’s do straight from zero, right?
And without changing any of my configurations, my under extrusion issues are gone.
Andy
No kidding.
Chris
Don’t underestimate the power of bad plastic.
Frank
Yeah.
Well, and I kind of felt bad because last week I mentioned Overture is my go to brand for material, and I have not had any problems with anything other than that one color.
Like all the other colors have been just fine.
Chris
Insert shameless plug here.
Frank
Yeah.
I’m going to stick with Overture.
And actually that kind of reminds me of another thing that I mentioned.
Maybe it’s because I am the one that’s setting up the podcast and doing all the production stuff and whatever, but I’ve been getting targeted ads from podcast venues that insist on telling me how stupid I am for not seeking sponsors.
Andy
Oh, really?
Chris
Not sure if it’s worth it at the moment because we don’t really have that big a listener base at the moment.
Frank
Yeah, we’ve got 30 subscribers.
But there’s the other part of me that just wants to be rebellious and say, you know what?
You think I’m stupid for not doing sponsorships?
Let me show you how stupid I can be.
And I’m going to talk product names as well as just not receiving, not seeking sponsorship.
You know?
Andy
Yeah.
Frank
Because for whatever reason, I am that kind of rebellious.
My parents loved me for that.
Chris
That’s kind of funny.
I think we all like that part about you a lot too.
Frank
There was another 3D podcast I was listening to.
These guys are more commercial 3D, but they had a guest on that said something that was really impactful for, I don’t know, unexpected reasons.
So when you’re in a traditional manufacturing shop, the idiom says that it’s easier to remove material than it is to put it back on.
In a 3D shop, the idiom is it’s easier to put material on than it is to take it off.
Chris
Additive manufacturing.
Frank
And the less post you have to do, the easier it is to run a business, right?
Andy
Yeah.
Frank
It was just one of those, you know, that’s true.
It’s just like the telephone thing that we’ve been realizing in the last couple of years.
When we were young, you had to know where somebody was to call them.
And now everybody has a cell phone, you call them to figure out where they are.
Andy
Yeah.
Chris
Yes.
Kevin
That’s certainly true, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Chris
Or you’ve got the sneaky wife, you know, plopping up the GPS locator on the husband’s cell phone.
Frank
My wife and I do that on purpose.
Chris
Yeah, my, my, well, if you know what’s happening, sure.
I’m just saying that it’s, it’s a lot of time.
There’s a lot of times where, you know, you have people in relationships doing the not cool thing.
Frank
Yeah.
There’s that.
Anyway, as far as actual printing this week, though, I, I tried printing the gem dragon Chris and I decided I don’t like it because the interference parts are so small.
Like there’s a super small, I want to say two or three millimeter post.
And then it’s the same, it’s probably not even three millimeter.
It’s probably closer to two.
There’s a loop that goes around it and even a point two millimeters for my resolution.
It doesn’t do very well because it’s so small and other dragons and like I’ve done some snakes and that sort of thing.
When there’s a bigger piece for things to move around, it actually prints better.
Chris
Okay.
So I should find a different model to look at then.
Frank
I would definitely suggest trying a different model to see, to be sure that it’s not issues from the STL that you’re provided for sure.
Chris
Okay.
Andy
Well, there’s some, there’s stuff you could do in Cura to increase those.
I’m trying to remember what the, what it was, but it, it kind of increases all the distances between sections of the print to compensate for that.
I don’t remember what it’s called though.
I’ll come back to you on that.
Frank
Except for these parts are, the problem is they’re so small in my mind.
It’s not that it’s close together, it’s that the parts that interlock are so small.
I said interference, but yeah.
So just a super small post and a super small diameter for the ring that goes around it.
Whereas, you know, most of your flexi or print in place stuff, yeah, articulating stuff has got really tight tolerances.
Actually I did find some cases that I was hoping would work and speaking of tight tolerances, the tolerances on this are so tight that once it’s printed, I can’t close it.
The hinges are stuck together.
So maybe I’ll use them as a model and redesign my own version of it so that it’s got an actual hinge on it instead of like the slider on my toolbox for the screwdriver that I did a long time ago.
Chris
What’s fun is I had that issue once, I’m trying to think with an interlocking piece and so what I did was I printed one at like 98% scale or something like that instead and it ended up being just right for the clearance after that.
Frank
Okay.
Andy
It looks like Cura has a setting called slicing tolerance that is for repairing stuff like this when a model is built with them too close together that you could use this setting to make the gaps larger in between interference parts.
Frank
Okay.
Chris
Okay.
Frank
I might have to play with that.
It does feel like it’d be more valuable in my case than with the Dragon though Chris.
I would still try something that’s got a bigger locking pieces just to make sure that that’s not part of the issue.
Chris
But yeah, sure.
Frank
Also I printed off a couple of those blocks that I designed.
Still kind of working through that project for my mom.
These ones are blue and if they still work with the model I used and with the pieces that I decided are where I want it to be, I’m probably just going to go into full production mode and print as many of these things off of it as I can with what plastic I’ve got, at least for now.
Andy
Okay.
Nice.
Frank
I worry that my colors are as old as the spool that was not doing so well and since conditioning didn’t work on the spool that wasn’t doing so well, I’m hesitating to let them sit much longer without using them up.
So
Chris
print them up, print them up.
Yeah, there’s really no reason to inventory colors if I’m not going to use them.
This one, these blocks are a good use for the colors too though.
So we’ll do that.
Andy
That’s good.
That’s good.
Frank
So yeah, that’s my week.
Just in case it wasn’t busy enough.
Andy
You’ve been quite the busy guy.
Got anything planned for upcoming weeks at all, any of you?
Frank
Not really.
Now that you’ve mentioned it though, I do want to try that setting and cura for these boxes because they would be great.
What I’ve been doing is my filament comes in the bag and then it’s got a box that’s just the right size for the spool to fit in and I’ve been saving those boxes and been using them as my toolboxes.
And I have seen where some people have designed stuff that goes in the spool for a spool toolbox with drawers that you can slide and all that other fun stuff, but I just couldn’t help but think that if I could find a better toolbox than the reused cardboard, and I’m not so much worried about the cardboard being in the environment anyway, that stuff breaks down real easy and whatever.
Chris
Yeah, wouldn’t it be cool to have like a little bearing between each spool and have it on a stack and our rod kind of like, and then you could have a multi-stack tool around about that would be fun.
Frank
Kind of like a vertical version of what we used when we worked in the warehouse for our stickers.
Chris
Yeah, yeah, for the little eyeballs, eyeball racks and things.
Andy
One of the, I remembered what it was called before, it was horizontal expansion that I used for that in the settings for Cura, but I think that experimental setting I was talking about is more better designed for the tolerance, slicing tolerance.
Frank
Seems to me the horizontal expansion is a, if I remember right, that’s more useful when you’re trying to account for like elephants foot or just your plastic expanding while it’s running.
Andy
It was like controlling the width of holes and stuff like that.
So it seemed to work really good as long as your error was on the horizontal plane, which the one time I did use it, that was the case, but I used it to compensate for an interference fitting and it worked really good.
But this experimental, this slicing tolerance might be something, I haven’t played with it, but it sounds like it might be actually designed for it in all directions, not just horizontal.
So.
Frank
Yeah.
Okay.
Sounds good.
Well, I don’t have anything else.
Have you guys got anything you want to share, vocalize, brag about, miss wine and moan.
Chris
Was there a topic we were going to avoid?
Kevin
So I just, I had one thought real quick, that when I was trying to slice these walls that I’m printing right now, it kept on saying, failing with an unexpected error.
And Chris’s comment about the, the, the model, not, not, yeah, not, not setting, pressing the set.
Chris
Lay flat.
Kevin
Lay flat.
That button.
Um, I, as soon as I did that, it solved the issue.
Like I was, I was getting all ready to file a bug report with, um, is it Ultimaker?
Anyway, whoever, whoever does Cura and, and they were going through the list of things were like, well, have you tried this?
Have you tried that?
Have you tried this other thing?
And I was like, you know, I think maybe if I try that and it worked.
So it’s just…
Chris
It’s just, it’s, it’s one of those, yeah.
Kevin
It’s frustrating that it didn’t say this is the problem and this is what you need to do to fix it.
And that was also, it brought to light.
One of my other frustrations with Cura is that when you’re rotating a thing, you have to drag it.
You can’t just type in a number and say, I want it to rotate 90 degrees.
Andy
Oh, no, you, you can, um, you, yeah, when you, when you got, when you have an object clicked on and the rotating options come up, there’s a text box that, uh, pops up with it.
Chris
Yeah, there’s, there should be..
Frank
It could be a configuration that we’re all taking for granted, but, um…
Chris
yeah, because there’s a text box on the left when you select the model and you have the rotation selected and it’ll say rotate this much X, Y or Z and you can select that and get…
Frank
uh, not with the rotate.
Andy
Yeah.
With the
Frank
no, I’m looking at it.
But the rotate is just a drag.
Now, with the scale and the move, there are text boxes, but there’s not one to rotate.
Andy
He’s right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Sorry about that.
Yeah.
He’s absolutely right.
Chris
Oh, they changed that.
That was available on the older model of the older version of Cura.
Andy
Was it?
Chris
I think they took that off because I remember bringing it back because I remember being able to do that.
Frank
Yeah.
And I do kind of like how, no, I didn’t want to do that, um, while you’re dragging it shows a percentage or not a percentage, but an angle of deviation and angle of change.
Kevin
It does do that, but I was apparently just a fraction of a degree off when I thought I had it at 90.
Andy
Oh, really?
Kevin
Yeah.
Chris
Oh, man.
And those are, those are really, really hard because you need that arbitrary, you know, one degree or one and a half degree.
And I know exactly what you’re talking about.
I have to deal with that all the time, not with Cura, but with, uh, CMM software at work.
But it lets me do that.
Frank
Stupid question here, Kevin.
Are you configured to snap?
Kevin
Yep.
Frank
Okay.
Because I would expect that.
Yeah.
That would have given you even round numbers.
90 instead of giving you any variation.
Kevin
Yeah.
So I, I was really confused that I had to do the lay flat because it should have been.
Chris
Right.
Oh, it wasn’t, it isn’t necessarily ever.
And that’s one of those simple dumb things that you need to check on your models.
And I completely looked over, even though I know it’s a thing.
Frank
Now we’ve got Kevin using the S word.
Kevin
Oh, I use the S word all the time.
Yeah.
But specific to 3D printers or FDM.
You are officially a member of the FDM community, Kevin.
Andy
I look at every single one of my models and I’ve always designed them, uh, uh, uh, Solid Works doesn’t use the, um, XY plane for the Z for the, for the floor of the build area.
And so every single one of my models are like cocked up at a funny angle, know what I mean?
And so every single one of them I have to, I usually do the, the click face to lay flat on a particular face.
And so I’m just into having to do with that with every single model.
So I never really thought about having to lay flat even a lay flat was an option.
That’s cool.
Is that, so is that when it, uh, is it just like at a slightly funny angle that it will lay it flat?
Is that what that is?
Kevin
Yeah.
Chris
Yeah.
So it, it, it takes the model and lays it flat to the build plate.
Andy
Okay.
So if I cock it up on one side and lay flat, does lay flat.
Oh, okay.
That’s neat.
I didn’t know that was an option.
Frank
So the interesting thing, maybe it’s a, one of those places where Fusion 3D is, uh, where Fusion 360 has an advantage over, uh, yours, Andy, but the way it’s oriented while you’re designing it is the way the STL comes up.
And because Cura drops everything to the floor, at least with FDM, then it’s always just flat.
Andy
Um, yeah, mine’s always up on its side.
The origin is just different.
And I can change the origin and solid works.
It’s just not default the same as Cura.
Frank
That’s interesting.
Chris
Um, like sometimes I’ll download an STL and it’ll be off like 180 degrees or something.
And that’s never, never really been an issue because you just rotate it 180 and you’re fine.
But you know, uh, where Kevin’s issue has been, he was slightly, he was slightly off just part, a partial degree or whatever.
So it wouldn’t print properly.
Andy
Yeah.
Kevin
It wouldn’t even slice.
Andy
Huh.
That is weird that it wouldn’t slice.
That does sound like a bug.
There was just something about the model at that funky angle that it just didn’t like.
And you should be able to put it anywhere on that bed plate in any orientation and it should slice.
Kevin
Yeah.
Frank
There have been a few goofy things for me where I’ll be doing a, a raft or even with the internal print of something.
It won’t do the whole layer with Cura and like even repositioning.
There’s like a zone where it doesn’t do that layer and it’s goofy as hell.
Chris
Okay.
Frank
I have to change other configurations just to get it right.
And when I’ve gone back to and re-sliced and, you know, complete restart of Cura and drop it in there and all that, it still does it.
And that’s kind of strange.
Chris
Yeah.
Well, we need, we need to use the lay flat option a little more often.
Frank
It was like the issue that Kevin was having though, where just a bizarre issue where it, it wasn’t slicing correctly.
Chris
Yeah.
Frank
The plan mapping it out.
Chris
Even when my models have been half cocked or whatever, it’s still sliced it just fine.
Frank
There have been times where I’ve done that on purpose specifically to reduce the need for, for supports.
Like we talked about with one of the fittings for my desk by putting it up at just the right angle.
Andy
Yeah.
Frank
Yeah.
And cocking it up at that angle was good for the print.
It actually, you know, made it print better and reduced my need for supports.
And Cura handled that just fine.
But if something is just goofy enough, it struggles.
That’s weird.
Well, why don’t we wrap this thing up and we can go on with our day.
And…
Kevin
put a bow on it
Chris
and wrap it up, lay it flat, wrap it up.
Andy
Right now, before the podcast here, I was in the middle of prototyping a board for my fish tank fans that I designed a while ago.
They’re causing, they’re causing an extreme amount of the evaporation.
And so I want to put a thermostat on them so it only runs when they actually need to be cooling the tank.
Frank
Okay.
Andy
And so I was prototyping a controller for that, putting a little screen on it and stuff like that.
But right before the podcast, I was getting all the hardware worked out before I started doing the interface and stuff.
So like halfway done with the hardware, I think I got two thermostats and a photo resistor I want to attach to it and then I’ll start producing the interface for it.
Frank
Yeah.
I usually don’t plan that far ahead.
Andy
Oh, really?
Chris
My wife.
My wife is a photo.
Andy
I love bulleting these projects.
Frank
Don’t get me wrong.
I’ve got a ton of stuff on my to-do list.
I just don’t plan far enough ahead to specify I’m going to work on this this week.
Andy
Oh, I hear you on that one though.
I do the same thing.
It’s just this one is one that this morning I had gotten out before the kids had gotten up and so it was nice quiet in the house and my brain doesn’t work with people talking around me.
I only have one track thought.
So like the voice in my head, listening to people and speaking all use the same single channel in my brain.
So if someone’s talking to me, I can’t think.
Frank
When I specify that I’ve got a single core processor, that’s what I mean.
Andy
That’s cool.
I’m glad I’m not alone on that one.
Frank
Only techies seem to get the reference.
Andy
But so having the house nice and quiet was a good time to sit down and code a little bit.
So I started putting that project together.
And now that I’ve done a little bit of it, it’s at that almost exciting stage.
What’s going to be fun and you probably experienced this when it comes to coding is you’ll get something set up.
You’ll get it so where you’re acquiring the data and you all have it set together perfectly in an array.
And then it’s like at that point, it’s like now I can play.
Frank
You’ve laid the groundwork in modern coding.
It’s even you’re including things like interfacing with the database and having the structure of the database complete and populated with test data and all that.
So it’s all where you need it.
And the plane is there and now I can make it do what I want it to do.
Andy
Exactly.
Exactly.
And it’s kind of like that when I’m doing stuff with microcontrollers, it’s about getting the hardware established.
Do I got the functions and everything set up to read the hardware and supply the data that I need and get the events driven so that things can drive events inside software and at that point I can start coding like normal and playing with it and making it do stuff.
I’m hoping that’ll take place tonight.
I want to stay up after but it’s gone to bed and work on this project so it’s nice and quiet tonight.
Frank
I’m like that with all my projects, honestly.
Andy
Yeah.
Frank
It doesn’t matter if it’s coding or carpentry or 3D printing or design or any of that stuff.
And the hard part is the groundwork, honestly in my mind.
Andy
It is.
Frank
Getting past that.
Andy
Because you’re not excited about that stuff.
That’s work.
You got to do it.
Frank
Yeah.
Andy
You’re just trying to think this through.
You’re not playing anymore.
Frank
Troubleshooting is the same way.
I hate troubleshooting.
I wish, to some degree, I wish the computer could just read my mind and fix my problems as I go, wait, they’re working on chatbots that can do that.
Andy
Yeah, no kidding.
One thing that I really miss working with ICs is there’s no error handler system at all.
There’s no debug or anything like that.
Frank
It just fails.
Andy
Yeah, it just doesn’t work.
And then you just got to go in and you use things like writing out to the serial or lighting up a light on it or something like that in patterns to let you know it’s accomplished this particular part of it or something and it’s hanging here or something.
Frank
Sounds like working with C.
Andy
Well, that’s exactly what it is to see.
And I don’t speak natively, I don’t natively speak C, so it’s even a little bit more tougher like, you know, a lot of the basic stuff is fine, but it’s like you’re constantly going to Google or going back, looking at my old projects.
How am I supposed to write that again?
Chris
Yarr.
The sea be a hard mistress.
Frank
Yeah.
I agree.
C is very much, you have to build in what are called tracers so that when you get past a certain thing, it outputs to the console.
I’ve done this.
Andy
There’s so much of that.
You look at my councils for these projects, just the serial out, it’s just like this feed of just stupidity, like, I’ve done this, I’ve done this, this worked great, yay, this took this long, you know.
Frank
At the same time you get used to doing that, you learn how to error handle with .NET a lot easier because you understand what’s going on.
So…
yeah, whatever.
Andy
But that will lead to another 3D printing project because I want to put it in a housing and make it attached to my current fan set up.
Frank
Andy, I just had a stupid idea.
Chris
Oh, I love stupid ideas.
Frank
We should start another podcast where we sit and talk about amateurs coding.
Andy
Oh, my gosh, oh man.
I can’t talk there, all I know how to do is spaghetti code.
Frank
Hey, we’re amateurs.
I’m not even professional coder at this point.
I don’t get paid for my code right now, so I’m basically an amateur myself.
So I think it’d be interesting.
Probably not going to happen though.
I’ve got enough stupid ideas that I don’t act on.
I think I’m going to put that one on the list.
It’s a good stupid idea.
Don’t get me wrong, but I don’t have the bandwidth for it.
Andy
I can’t even decide when I see poor coding anymore because I’m all self-taught.
I didn’t learn the proper way to do any of this stuff, but I put forth enough into it.
Like you’ve seen it, I can get from point A to point B quite well, but oh my god, you don’t want to look how.
Chris
Well, it’s kind of like if you flip enough switches, eventually you’ll land a plane.
You know?
Yeah, it’s that kind of coding, right?
Andy
Yep.
Oh my gosh, three words, words, words, words, that’s what it’s going for.
Frank
Oh, yes.
That was a fun play for us in high school.
And anybody who doesn’t know the play is going, huh?
But anybody that does is just there with us.
We’re on the same page.
Andy
Yep.
I’m sure people would recognize it better as just the infinite monkeys, infinite type of writers can produce Shakespeare, but he kind of knows that one.
Words, words, words was a play about that.
Frank
Based off of that idea with the the addendum that if you have three monkeys with an infinite amount of time and typewriters, they could write Hamlet.
Andy
Yeah.
Frank
So, yeah, emphasis on the word C could, capital C on the word could.
Andy
Yeah.
Frank
Anyway, yeah, let’s wrap this up.
We are so far afield that we’re not even talking 3D printers any more.
Chris
We’re not in baseball anymore.
Frank
Yeah, well, the 49ers are going to win the pennant eventually.
All right, we’d like to thank everyone for listening to the very end.
Chris
The very, very end, holy, coly.
Frank
Yeah, we, we did worse than usual this episode.
That said, if you did like what you hear, please give us all the stars and subscribe.
We are available through a wide variety of podcast vendors and so are easy to share.
If you have feedback or if you have content requests, please let us know.
You can find us in our Facebook group, amateur 3D pod, or you can email us at panelists@amateur3dpod.com.
For individual feedback, you can email us at Franklin, Kevin, Andy, or Chris @amateur3dpod.com.
Kevin Buckner wrote the music for this episode and all of our episodes.
Open AI’s whisper completed the heavy lifting for the transcripts, which you can find linked in the description.
Our panelists are me, Franklin Christensen, and my friends, Kevin Buckner, Chris Weber, and Andy Cottam.
Until next time, we’re going offline.
Kevin
Keep your FEP tight.
Andy
Use hairspray.
Chris
Bigger bed means more fun.
Kevin
Hey, Craig.
Andy
Hi, Craig.
Frank
Speak of the devil.
Chris
This guy again.
Frank
Yeah.
Speak of the devil and draw his attention.
Kevin
always listening in on our conversations.
They should have called it Big Brother.
Frank
Maybe that’ll be the episode title.
Big Brother is listening.