063 – Printing with chocolate milk is AWESOME!

Frank

Thank you for joining us.
This is episode 63 of Amateur 3D Podcast, a podcast by amateur printers for amateur printers, where we share our thoughts and experience.
Panelists this week are me, Franklin Christensen, and my friends, Chris Weber, Andy Cottam, and Kevin Buckner.
Good morning, guys.
Good afternoon.
Thanks for working with me on my event stuff this morning, starting tonight.

Andy

No problem.

Kevin

You’re welcome.

Chris

I wanted a nice allay from going out into the cold, so, yeah.

Andy

It snowed a lot here.
Did you get any snow up there, you guys?

Frank

We got like two inches here.

Kevin

We got a little bit.

Frank

Maybe.

Andy

That’s about what we got.
These are already outside building an igloo.

Chris

They need to hold their ig together?

Andy

Yep.
It’s all over the place.
Put it all into the loo and call again.

Kevin

Use the ig glue to hold the ig together

Frank

That’s not how you get an egg to gl…

Chris

Yellow snow.
It’s an ig glue.

Kevin

Sure.

Frank

I’m not sure what an ig is anymore

Kevin

right?
See, I always thought you used the igloo to hold the egg together, but now we’re getting into weird definitions.

Frank

My willful suspension of disbelief is falling apart, right?

Chris

Well, it’s kind of like when you need to use the loo, but you got an ig.

Frank

Yeah, that doesn’t explain it any better, Chris.
Well, since you got us on this path, Chris, why don’t you start?
Did you work on anything this week?

Chris

Yes.
So it is the wife’s birthday is coming up, so I pulled this thing off the printer just this morning.

Kevin

Nice.

Andy

Oh.

Kevin

Explain it to the visual listeners.

Chris

So this is a sleeping articulated dragon.
The legs are not articulated there, but very nice.

Frank

The pieces also look a little bigger than the typical dragon, too.

Chris

Yeah.
So it’s pretty good.
So it actually is a really good test piece for the way my printer is working, the way that it is articulating.
So it’s just a single articulation along the spine instead of all the other parts.
So and they’re kind of big.
They’re like pieces.
They’re almost all ball shaped with little spikes on the coming off.

Frank

Yeah, I’d say that those articulated pieces are about twice as big as any of the other dragons I’ve seen.

Chris

So yeah, so we had been talking in the forum about flow rates, right?
And I realized that that’s not something I had ever played with.
And I’d been getting a lot of stringing and a little pimples and things out of my plastic.
And again, was having slight adhesion problems when I tried to print some things.
And so this was a really good test for all of those things.
So no hairspray, no nothing, just my leveled bed.
And yeah, this stuck so well, I actually almost had to get a mallet to get it off my print bed.

Frank

Good deal.

Chris

So what I did was I adjusted my flow rate.
So in Cura under the experimental settings, they have flow rate adjustments so you can do a set flow rate or a percentage flow rate.
And so I just was like, okay, well, my nozzle’s probably over extruding a little bit.
So I’m going to cut it down to 95%.
And I printed this and everything was just so nice, the lines came out so much smoother.
There was still a little bit of stringing, so I’m going to bring it down to maybe 93%.
And go from there.
But yeah, big, big, big quality improvement and bed adhesion, all from just adjusting my flow rate down a little bit.

Andy

That’s good.
To say something about flow rate adjustments, and that is, if everything is working perfectly on your machine, your flow rate should be at 100%.
I think the only time you should ever be using the adjusted flow rate is if you got filament that is either undersized or oversized, otherwise, there’s something else wrong.

Frank

Andy’s using the S word.

Andy

Yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
Well, one of the things that I’ve been preaching from way back in the day is to check your steps.
Always check your steps per millimeter for your feeder, because it has been my experience that a brand new feeder has a break-in period, and it won’t feed as much filament per step once it’s kind of broken in.
Now the other day, I went and tested mine because I was getting boogers, and mine had gone the opposite direction.
It was actually feeding more.
This is the first time it’s ever done more.
It’s always done less before.
And so when it comes to your flow rate, if you got filament that’s out of spec, then I think that’s what it really should be used for.
But if your feeder’s not feeding in how much it should be, then the flow rate’s a great way to compensate for that.
But it’s kind of put a bandaid a little bit over the problem.
And as Frank can probably contest, the flow rate adjusts it in a lot of different places where making sure your feed rate is still correct per step, that, yeah, you might be correcting for the feed rate being wrong, but it’s also over-correcting in the other areas that can mess up the print, too.

Chris

Okay.
So

Andy

Does that make sense?

Chris

Where do you adjust the feed rate?

Andy

Okay.
So it’s really easy to do.
The typical thing to do is, you know how you can make your carriage move around in millimeters just with the control surface or with your controls?

Chris

Yeah.

Andy

How you can move the carriage around?
Well, there’s going to be an option in there to move your feeder, too.
I think mine actually calls it the extruder.
But

Frank

yeah, that’s what we’ve been calling an extruder for the last year there, Andy.

Andy

Yeah.
Well, it doesn’t extrude anything.
That’s the nozzle.

Kevin

Yeah.

Chris

Okay.

Andy

But anyway, that measurement, when you’re feeding a certain amount of filament through, that’s how many millimeters of filament should be going through the unit.
So if you get your calipers out and you measure out from one point, let’s say 100 millimeters, and you mark the filament 100 millimeters out, then you use that control to extrude 100 millimeters of filament.
And then you can see how far your mark is, whether it pulled it further in than it should have or if it’s still sticking out than it should have.
And then you can measure that, you can get real complicated with it.
You can then measure that to see how far it’s off and then divide that into your steps per millimeter that’s set on your machine to figure out how much you need to adjust your steps per millimeter.
So it really only takes one test like that to get it pretty much perfect.
But I think you got to do it every once in a while because the feeder itself, especially when brand new, the teeth do wear down a little bit at the very beginning, and you’re going to get a different feed rate than you did when it was brand new.

Chris

Feed me.

Frank

Now, the method that I came across actually recommended that you measure 120 millimeters.

Andy

Is there a reason for 120?

Frank

Yeah, when you feed the 100, if you are overfeeding, then that gives you a little bit of length to measure off of how far off it is.
So if it’s overextruding, like you just said that you were doing, then you know by how much you just measure 20 millimeters plus or minus where it’s supposed to be to figure out.
And that way you have length to measure once it’s all done with the 100 millimeters of feed.

Andy

I see.
That makes sense.
Okay.
Yeah.
So what I did with mine and since it sucked it in, I actually extruded it or run the feeder in reverse and then took that into consideration how much I had to run it into reverse.
But your method would be better.
Yeah.
You can actually extrude out 120 but measure out 120 and then only extrude 100 and then you should be 20 out and then you can measure from that.
Is that what you’re saying?

Frank

Yeah.
Exactly.

Andy

That’s a much better idea.
I like that.
I’m going to do that.

Frank

And then with that method, you’re not dependent on your controller reading the right distance when you know that it’s off just a little bit.

Andy

Yeah.
Yeah.
That’s very good.
That’s a very good note.
I like that.

Frank

Of course, most of the calipers I’ve seen have got the depth gauge on it too, the little thing that can go inside of the tube.
Yeah.
So if it’s not all the way down to the gears, you could have measured inside with your depth gauge too.
Yeah.

Andy

And I know most calipers on the very bottom of the caliper tends to be kind of sharp, sharp enough to put a mark in plastic.
So I always use the depth gauge, put it on top of a known point.
I’ve got a little piece of a PET tube that sticks out of my feeder just to kind of guide it into the feeder.
It’s like 10 millimeters, 20 millimeters long or something.
But anyway, I did it based off of that.
So I put the depth gauge on that, pulled it out.
Let’s say I did it Frank’s way, pulled it out 120 millimeters, and then used the bottom of the calipers to score the plastic, to score the filament.
Excuse me.
And then that way, when you pull it in, you’ve got that nice flat score mark that I can then judge it with the top of the PET tube.

Chris

Oh yeah.
Yeah.
You talking about the end of the jaws or the

Andy

just anywhere, if you’ve got a spot where your filament goes into, you’re

Frank

No he’s talking about your calipers, Andy, what part of your calipers are you scoring it with?
The jaws or the…

Andy

no, the very bottom of the caliper itself, just the very, the foot of it.

Frank

The end of the ruler?

Andy

Yep.
Exactly.
Yeah.

Chris

Oh, okay.

Andy

At least mine is fairly sharp in that, in that area.
It’s pretty squared off.
So I’m able to score the, what’s it called, the filament with that.
Here I got it here, I’ll show you.
So you know, you got the depth gauge sticking out and you got the very bottom of the caliper right there that’s sharp enough to, to score the filament.

Frank

Yeah.

Chris

Okay.
Nice, nicer calipers are usually not so sharp on the bottom there.

Frank

I don’t use my nice calipers very often.
I just use the plastic ones for most of my stuff.
Yeah.

Andy

I did notice, just during Christmas shopping, that the price of these all metal cheaper calipers has drastically gone down.
You can buy a good set of metal, all metal calipers for about 20 bucks now online, on Amazon.

Chris

Oh.

Andy

They’re, they’re like, they’re like my, my Pittsburgh, you know, um, Harvard freight ones, but this one here has been one of the best calipers I’ve ever had.
But this is, this is back when, this is like 20 years old, this caliper.
And uh, Harbor Freight went into making them all out of plastic from now on.
So they’re all garbage now, but…

Frank

I, I do have a set of metal digital Pittsburgh.
And the reason I don’t like them as much is when I turn them on is zeros.
And I can, like they’ll be closed and I can still push and get it to go zero and re-zero from there.
And then I can still push more zero.
It’s like, it’s not calibrated well or the, the part that reads the distance isn’t so great.
So.

Andy

I think I know what you mean.

Frank

I’m not crazy about them because I don’t trust that they are as accurate as I want them to be.

Andy

Yep.
That is true.
Cause mine will go out about point zero two to point zero three off.
If you push it together really hard and then release it, uh, I think that’s got a little bit to do with the housing is made out of plastic and that can work.

Chris

So there’s a spring on the top of there.
That’s kind of like a, um, it’s kind of like a leaf spring.
And so that has a little bit of flex in it.
So, um, part of using your calipers is to not force them to not put excessive pressure on them.
And so if you don’t, if you don’t use the excessive pressure, you know, um, Pittsburgh calipers are wonderful, but also it only seems to go out by a couple hundred, no, hundredths of a millimeter.
So still all within, you know, the range that we would be using them for…

Frank

But, but my, my brain doesn’t let me do it.
If it doesn’t read zero.

Andy

Ah, okay.

Chris

So

Kevin

Which is fair.

Andy

Well in that case, Frank is a great example of someone who does require a really good set of calipers.

Chris

So…

Frank

even if it is only two or three hundredths of a millimeter.

Andy

Yeah.
Yeah.

Chris

So, so yeah, there’s, there’s a reason there, there’s reasons that at the most of the production places I’ve been and had to deal with, uh, calipers, um, is that they go with the high end stuff like starrette, midatoyo, um, brown and sharp, those kinds, because they’re really well built, but they’re really expensive.
They’re like two hundred, three hundred dollars a piece

Andy

yeah

Chris

but they’re worth it because it, uh, I, I have cal, quote unquote calibrated, um, Pittsburgh calipers that people were using in production and they were inconsistent garbage because they were being used and abused and they didn’t take the use and abuse the same way as the higher end, midatoyo, et cetera, do.

Andy

Okay.

Frank

And to be fair, you know, the, the, especially like, let’s say an airplane, uh, shop or, uh, nuclear reactor shop or something like that, you’re working with very tight tolerances for a reason and we are talking about plastic.

Andy

Yeah.

Frank

You look at it just right and it’s already out of spec.

Chris

Well, even the, even the high end midatoyo and brown and sharp have plastic casings over all of that, but all of the, all of the actual slide material and all that is metal.

Frank

Well, and, and, and I was talking about the medium you’re measuring, not the, uh, medium you’re measuring with.

Chris

Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so in production.

Andy

Yeah The ammount of precision you need.

Chris

And so in production you’re dealing with a lot with metal and, uh, high precision.
And so calipers are really, really only reliable plus or minus a thou, which is plus or minus uh, about 0.01, 0.03 millimeters.

Andy

Okay.
So thanks for the conversion there.
That brought it into a, my brain only works in metric on these small measurements.
So.

Kevin

Yeah.
That’s cause metric is far superior, but we’ve already talked about that.

Andy

Oh God.
I wish we would just move everything.
We would have like a shitty month of people complaining about it, but if we got everything switched over, then that would be the norm and everybody would like to use it and nobody would want to go back.

Frank

Except for it wouldn’t be that quick.

Chris

Yeah.

Frank

All of the streets would have to be re-signed and.

Andy

Oh, I’m saying we should just, somebody should just flip their fingers and it should just all be done.
All at once.

Frank

Om om omnicient.

Chris

Oh, it’s a infinity Stone.

Frank

God Power.

Andy

Yeah.
I don’t see why they don’t just do that work for me.

Chris

If I had the infinity stones clip, we’re all metric.

Kevin

Not only that, but we have been metric for…

Chris

the last 20

Frank

decade or two.

Andy

Yeah.

Frank

Yeah.
The argument that I keep hearing is well, all the mechanics are going to have to have two sets of tools.
If we do that.
My response is…

Kevin

Mechanics already have two sets of tools.

Frank

Yeah.
They already have two sets of tools and metric converts to Imperial much better than Imperial as to metric.

Chris

So what it is is production shops are still using prints from the fifties and sixties.
And there’s a lot of time and work involved in quote unquote converting those into metric and the tooling involved converting those like…

Frank

except for OEMs, probably one of the bigger ones.
OEMs, I’ll do it in metric and then they sell it is Imperial in the US and the UK.
So…

Chris

well, okay.
So I’ve been, I’ve been involved with making aircraft parts, right?
Yeah.
And automotive parts and things like that.
And so all automotive parts that I’ve come across have been put to metric, not a problem.
Aircraft parts is a different story.
Aircraft is this strange mix of standard sometimes and metric other times and it just depends on where it’s going, what is being used.
And so because all of our aircraft were designed in Imperial back when and we’re still using those same aircraft, you know, it’s all still Imperial.

Andy

That makes sense.
So we should still switch and you guys would still have to suffer for the next like 50 years then of dealing with old, old prints and stuff.

Kevin

But that’s the point is that the mechanics already have stuff that’s in metric and stuff that’s in Imperial.
So they already have to have two sets of tools.
So it’s just, it’s an excuse.
It’s kind of like when people complain about the clock switching, the common excuse is, oh, it’s for the farmers and the farmers hear that and say, oh, shut up, stop blaming it on us.
We’re up with the sun and we’re down with the sun regardless of what our clock says.

Frank

We wake up at five o’clock every morning, guess what?
The sun is never up at five o’clock in the morning.

Kevin

The reality is it’s for the tourism industry and but they don’t want to admit that because they say, well, if we, if we tell the truth, then people will say that’s just such a frivolous thing that it doesn’t hold any water.
So let’s blame it on the farmers and it’s not this case.

Frank

Well, and you look at places like Utah, everything shuts down at nine weather

Kevin

right?
So it’s just an excuse.

Chris

and nothing opens till eight anyway.
Yeah.

Andy

I used to be one of those people who hated, who wanted to move to daylight savings time all the time kind of people until the last couple of years where I really considered how it affected my life.
Every time we have daylight savings time change, it always seems to be changing it into favoring my work schedule every single time, like with what time the sun comes up and in keeping my early morning routines fairly normal.
So we should be on board of keeping daylight savings time just the way it is where we change every year.
But I completely understand why that pisses everybody off.
And if we change, I’m still on board because even though it benefits me, it hurts a lot more people.

Kevin

Well, see, my attitude is I don’t care whether we stay on daylight saving time or on standard time.
I just want to stop changing the clock twice a year.

Frank

So on that score, I used to think we should stay on standard time because that’s what time it’s supposed to be.
And then I learned, oh no, in the US, the same law that established daylight savings time also established the time zones in the US.
So there was no “standard time” before we did daylight savings time.
And it’s like, oh, OK, I don’t care where we go either just as long as we stay still.
I like summertime.
Let’s stay on summertime all year.

Andy

There you go.
I like that plan.

Kevin

That’s daylight saving time.

Frank

I do like that schedule better, honestly.
But I’m weird.

Chris

Yeah, let’s just stop changing the clocks, please.

Kevin

That’s all I’m saying.

Frank

If it makes sense, it doesn’t apply.

Chris

It’s not about what time the sun’s coming up or whatever else.
It’s just we’re sick of the clocks changing on us every six months.

Andy

Do you guys have any information on what happened when we stopped doing it before?

Frank

Oh, it was chaos.
It was chaos for like three months and then everybody got used to it.
And then I think it was five years after they tried to go to no daylight savings time and people lost their minds.
So they just stuck with it.

Andy

Oh, OK.

Frank

And that’s how it’s been for 60 or 70 years now.

Andy

I’m curious here.
How many years were we not doing daylight savings time, like after we started and then stopped again?

Frank

Yeah, I think it was just the once.
I am recalling from a position of bad memory, though.

Andy

Yeah, oh, it’s fine.
I don’t remember either.
All I know is I remember hearing that we had stopped doing daylight savings time at one point and decided that daylight savings time was the right way to go.

Frank

While, you look that up, Kevin.
Why don’t you go over what you worked on this week?

Kevin

All right.
So I got some of the wood PLA and started printing part of the shelf that my wife had requested.
And so I got the ends done.
I got the biscuits mostly done.
But the centerpiece, I started printing.
Everything was working great.
Oh, I did.
I am using the older build plate, the one that’s not flexible, because I have that issue with the flexible one that it’s not…
I’m having the adhesion issue.

Frank

It doesn’t tram very well, right?

Kevin

It’s not a tramming issue.
It’s an adhesion issue.
So I did read up on how to solve that, and the recommendation is to get some isopropyl alcohol and wipe it down.
And that should remove any of the finger oils that are keeping the plastic from adhering to it.
I haven’t done that yet, because I’ve been busy.
But I came in after the print was done.
I got it going at night, came upstairs the next morning, and only half of the print job was done.
And the printer was saying, I’m done printing.

Andy

I know what happened.

Kevin

Clogged.

Andy

Oh, never mind.
I don’t know what happened.

Kevin

The nozzle got clogged, and the feeder gear chewed through the filament, and it’s just all kinds of messed up right now.
So I’m going to have to do some stuff to unclog the nozzle.
Now the filament did say, because it’s got wood in it, it did say that they recommend using a larger nozzle than the one I’m using

Frank

because the wood fibers pass through it better.

Kevin

Yeah, so it says to prevent clogging, we recommend using like a 0.6 or larger nozzle.
I’m still using the 0.4, so it clogged.

Andy

I love 0.6.
Every since I moved to 0.6, it’s been great.
I highly recommend 0.6.
Yeah.
If you’re running Cura, the newer Cura version of Cura that uses the Arachne engine.

Chris

Yep.
So they’ve got the new version 6.3.

Andy

Yeah.

Chris

Yeah.

Kevin

So anyway, so there’s that, and I haven’t been able to spend the time to fix that problem yet.
But on the other printer, I painted up that Mimic ornament that I talked about last time, and we put up the tree today.
So the ornament is on the tree, and Jess hasn’t noticed yet.

Andy

Nice.

Frank

Or at least she hasn’t said anything.

Kevin

Oh, I don’t think she’s noticed.

Frank

Okay.

Kevin

She did say that once we put up the tree, she really doesn’t spend much time looking at it after it’s up.
So it could be until Christmas before she notices, or until we’re taking the tree down or whatever.

Frank

Or one of the youngsters sees it and goes and asks her what it is.

Kevin

Oh, no, no, no.
I already told them what the plan is.

Frank

Oh.
So they’re in on it.

Kevin

Yeah.
They’re in on it.
They got excited about.

Frank

Gotcha.

Kevin

So she was off visiting her dad because of his health issues.
And I wasn’t sure when she was going to come home, and neither was she.
And so I said, all right, guys, I don’t know how much time I’ve got to paint this thing.
So I’m going to do it real quick.
And so as soon as it was done, I was like, okay, I need your help getting everything put away because I have no idea when she’s coming back.
She came home 40 minutes later.
So I didn’t have to rush as much as I did.
But they were excited to help me clean up and everything to not get caught with this because they also want to see how long it’ll take her to notice and what she’ll say when she notices.

Frank

Sure.

Kevin

But I’ve actually printed up another one of those in gray.
It’s just kind of sitting in a hiding spot right now.
I haven’t had time to paint it yet.
But then I did also print up a couple of those lattice bell ornaments in white resin.
The plan there is I’m going to let my kids each paint one.
And it was interesting.
And I’ve noticed this any time I’ve printed in white resin.
It looks like I’m printing stuff with milk.
The resin itself is milky in appearance.
And so you’ve got this moving up and down in the milk like this.
And then you’ve got this printed model that comes out of it.
So printing with milk, it’s awesome.
And now I am currently, because I also realized that a bunch of my resin technically expired last month, it’s still working fine, but a lot of it says best by.
So it doesn’t really say it’s ineffective.

Chris

Even with resin, you’ve got a little bit of life after that, but that’s the indication that you need to use it.

Kevin

So that’s what I’m doing.
So I’m printing up another one of the Mimic ornaments because I just think they’re so cool and I think I’m going to give them to people.
But this one, I decided I would just keep the white resin in the vat because the white is one of them that was best by the middle of last month.
But then I also had this bottle of just resin that I’ve colored.
And then when I’ve been done with it, I’ve just put it all in the same bottle.
So I don’t need this color anymore.

Frank

Catch all.

Kevin

Yeah.

Chris

Printing with expired milk.

Kevin

Yeah.
Well, it’s kind of like printing with chocolate milk because it has turned brown.
But I’ve looked in the resin vat while it’s printing and it’s going to come out with kind of a flesh tone.
So I think that’ll work great for a Mimic ornament.

Andy

Oh, there you go.

Frank

That is interesting.

Andy

It’s good having to catch all like that.

Frank

Do the colors separated all or do they homogenize over time?

Kevin

Yeah.
Well, one of the things you have to do when you’re going to use resin is shake up the bottle real well because the various components of the resin do settle out over time.
So you have to shake them up again to homogenize everything.
And so if there is any color separation, which I doubt, shaking it up would re-homogenize everything.

Frank

Not on account of the colors themselves anyway.

Kevin

Right.

Chris

Okay.
So would you shake two different colors and then pour one and then the other and get kind of a swirl pattern out of it or?

Kevin

I’ve tried that and sometimes it works.
Other times they just combine, but I have gotten some, a little bit of marbling when I’ve done that.

Chris

Okay.
So you can do that sort of.
Okay.

Kevin

Yeah.

Frank

I swear you even talked about that a couple of months ago, trying some stuff.

Kevin

Yeah.

Frank

No!
It was last year.
Well, you were doing the bells.
I was trying to get the different layers as you went down, different colors.
And we’re not happy with how some of the colors were coming together, I think.

Kevin

That was with the Easter eggs earlier this year.

Frank

That’s right.
Okay.

Chris

Yeah.

Frank

Easter eggs.
I was close.

Andy

Yeah.

Kevin

Holiday related prints.

Frank

Yes.
Absolutely.

Andy

So…

Frank

Is that it?

Kevin

Oh, go ahead.

Frank

Is that all you got there, Kev?

Kevin

That’s one more thing that is 3D printing adjacent.
I have been accepted into a play testing group for a game that is up and coming that the play test will be entirely done on tabletop simulator.
But when the game goes to market, my understanding of it is because it’s in partnership with Loot Studios that it will be a print and play game where you buy the STLs and probably the PDFs and print up your own cards and minifigures and game pieces and go from there.

Frank

That’s cool.

Andy

Yeah.

Frank

I like that idea.

Andy

It is neat.
I’ll have to keep an eye on that.
I know my wife was interested in joining you for the test.

Kevin

Yeah.

Frank

One of these next weekends.

Chris

Yeah, I’m going to jump in on this test too.
As long as I can print stuff with an FDM.

Kevin

Well, like I said, the game test is all on tabletop simulator.
There won’t be any printing involved with that.

Andy

Yeah.

Frank

Unless you want to, right?

Kevin

Well, part of the agreement is I’m not allowed to share the files with anybody.
The files I have are all for tabletop simulator.
They’re not STLs and PDFs and all that.
It’s code files for that so that it will work within the tabletop simulator environment.

Frank

What are the Qubit files, I think they’re called?

Kevin

I don’t know.

Frank

I can’t remember.
Anyway, like a bit swarm or something, there’s another game I play that uses 3D objects that I tried to get STLs for.
Still sounds fun.

Kevin

Yeah.

Frank

We’ll have to keep an eye on it.

Kevin

Yeah, so this game, it’s called Relics Untold and it is like a hybrid between a war game and a trading card game.

Andy

Okay.

Frank

Cool.

Kevin

Yeah.

Frank

You heard about it first here on Amateur 3D Podcast.
No, you’ve lamented not being more vocal about your projects after they come out.
So let’s get this one out now and then we can talk about it as it continues.

Kevin

Yeah.

Andy

There you go.

Frank

All right, Andy.
What do you got?

Andy

Okay, so I got a little bit of information from when we did switch daylight savings time.
It was back in 1974 and they switched everybody over to permanent daylight savings time.
It was an energy conservation issue and it lasted for only eight months.
There were many deaths of children walking to school in the dark and that was the problem.
That looks like the primary problem was kids being out in the dark like that as a whole.
And so eight months later, they reverted back to their original daylight savings time plan.
That was in the fall of 1974.
So we did stop it for eight months and decided it was such a terrible idea that it only took eight months to go back, so there’s that.

Frank

Now, I feel like time zones have been around for longer than that though.
Maybe I now feel like I was definitely misremembering that they were enacted together.

Kevin

Well, so that is that.

Andy

No, sorry.

Kevin

Daylight saving time was first proposed back in the 1700s.

Frank

Yeah.
What’s his name?
The $5 bill guy.

Kevin

Benjamin Franklin.

Frank

Yeah.
No, that’s a hundred dollar bill, not five.
You know what I mean.

Kevin

But what Andy’s talking about here is that in the 70s, they did say we’re sick of this, let’s get rid of it, and they did for a while and then it had problems that they blamed on the clocks not changing.
And so, I remember walking to school in the dark anyway and I never got any cars.
And it’s like with, so I just, I struggle to see that that’s a viable, like that’s the actual problem.

Frank

There’s a mixture of when you want an excuse, you can find one and people in large groups don’t make good decisions, period.
So when there’s more and add that they were children walking in the dark, a large number of them versus a handful walking to school for band or whatever in the morning, you know, all of those things coming together, I can see being an issue.

Andy

Yeah.

Frank

I don’t know.

Chris

I would like to think that we have better infrastructure nowadays, you know, and we’ve got the school zones with the flashing lights and all of that.

Frank

Chris, I know that you were avoiding the S word, but I still heard it anyway.

Chris

Well, you should, you should let me sometimes.

Andy

Yeah, so it was after eight children in Florida were involved in a pre draw a pre dawn car accident.

Frank

You could have told me it was Florida without saying how many children it was and I would have understood…

Andy

Florida man was probably behind the wheel.
Bu yeah, so it looks like…

Frank

Well it did happen in Florida.
There’s a very good chance of that Andy.

Andy

Yeah, I think maybe.

Frank

So did you work on anything with your printer engraver this week?

Andy

Yeah, so not really.
I did print off a couple of things.
Oh, sorry about that.
I got a I got a cough here, but anyway, I printed a bunch of these articulated dragons.
This is the first time I’ve ever printed these guys and they are just they are so awesome.

Chris

Oh, ok, so that looks like a.
OK, so that’s that’s like a longer, slinkier version of the thing I just printed.
I get it.

Andy

Yeah, yeah, it is.
But there I am surprised at how like mobile and ropey they are for being, you know, printed out of PLA.
This is some three color changing PLA…

Frank

Print in place to wasn’t assembled, right?
It was print in place.

Andy

So yeah, completely printed place.
But the wife had me do some of these guys and I thought they were just really, really cool.
And so I did print those and got to use some of my my fancy PLA that I got thanks to Chris.
But…

Chris

Color is cool.

Andy

Yeah.
And one thing I didn’t realize is the the multicolored PLA I’ve got is silk PLA.
And

Chris

yeah

Andy

I didn’t even notice.
Yeah, I didn’t even notice it didn’t print any different than normal PLA.
I was pretty impressed.
I thought silk PLA was more difficult to print.
But this print’s just like normal PLA.
So I was really impressed with all that.

Frank

My issue with silk has never been that it is a different material or it looks different.
That it’s harder to print with.
It’s always been that I just don’t like the look of silk.

Andy

Oh, really?

Frank

Yeah.
And so it’s a personal aesthetic thing for me.
It’s not a quality of the material thing.

Andy

OK, I like how like shiny it is.
It glistens.

Chris

Shiny

Andy

verywhere.

Yeah

Chris

pretty shiny, shiny.

Andy

You guys are awesome.
But that’s that’s all I really did.
I, like I said, last podcast here, I got a lot going on with the holidays coming around.
I did finally get a date on when my windows will be done.
That’ll be two weeks from now that are going to come in.
In the middle of winter here and install all my windows.

Frank

Pull all your windows off your house and then put new ones on.
I’m hoping they do it one at a time and not all at once like that.

Andy

But yeah, they, you know, when I originally bought them, he was like, yep, it’ll be one day they’ll come in and they’ll do all 15 of the windows here.
I’m having done and then and then it grew to two days.
And then when they made the appointment to actually do it, for some reason, it’s three days.

Frank

And they’re going to start somewhere between nine a.m.
and four p.m.

Andy

Yeah, yeah, no kidding.
But that’s OK.
It’s a big project.
However, I got to clear out areas around the windows so that they can work on them.
And that’s going to make the house a disaster here.
And and so I kind of put the idea of cleaning up the basement here and making myself an office to be able to do my printing and electronic stuff on hold until probably after Christmas at some time.
I don’t know.
We’ll have to see.
But it’ll be after we do the windows.
And then hopefully I’ll get back on a little bit board, a little bit more on board of 3D printing and stuff.
I did today want to, you know, we are recording a little bit later.
I did sit down for a little while and I had just refreshed my entire main working laptop’s operating system.
I reformatted and started from scratch again to kind of clear up some problems.
But I did sit down to work on it until I realized I don’t have Solid Works installed yet.
So that was a fight, getting that installed on the machine.
And I kind of blew off a half hour of time that I had set aside to work on my my snake, my Beetle Juice sandworm.
But I spent it working on the computer, getting it able to do that instead.
So I’m hoping that’ll mean that later today I might sit down and get a little bit of work done on that project, too.
But we’ll see.

Frank

Sounds like a plan.

Andy

Yeah, I haven’t really used the laser cutter for anything new since last week, although that that thing has been a very nice tool to have.
Again, you get an opportunity to grab one for pretty cheap.
I would definitely recommend it.
It fits right alongside 3D printing.
And I seen somebody even use the laser cutter to etch like labeling and stuff into their 3D prints and how well that worked.

Frank

So I can see that once you get it dialed in, you know, how far to turn it up to just, you know, I guess it would vaporize the plastic, right?

Andy

Kind of.
Yeah.
Yeah, it kind of does.
So it’s it would be almost like if you left a void, but or, you know, if you deboss debossed letters into a 3D print.
But the only thing is, is the laser is far more precise, more smooth angles and stuff because, you know, the plastic doesn’t, you know, cover up the holes and when it’s making round quarters on letters and stuff, you know, it stays that nice and extremely precise cuts.
And it looks really good.
So on things that I might have like a dial on or something like that, where I might want to etch something into it, I think I’m going to wind up using the laser cutter instead of embossing text with the 3D printer.
So as you always seem to have, I haven’t tried since I sat down and I figured I need to do six millimeter high letters in order for cura to slice everything so it’s visible enough to be able to see it.
That was with the four millimeter nozzle.
And anytime I’ve used it since I’ve switched over to the six millimeter nozzle, I haven’t noticed any difference, but it’s still that’s six millimeter high letters.
Those are pretty big when the laser cutter at this point would be able to cut really small, small letters.
So that’s another reason why I think I’m interested in it.
But but yeah, I think that’s been my week.
What about you, Frank?
Have you done anything?

Frank

Six millimeters is kind of big for letters.

Andy

It is.

Frank

Um, well, I I felt like I was in a good place with my printer.
But Andy, you kept pushing for me to recalibrate my extruder.
So I did that.

Andy

Yeah.

Frank

And I was with my first measurement, I was only extruding 90 millimeters when my controller thought I was doing 100.
So it was a little bit less.
And that had me thinking, well, that probably contributed to my under extrusion with my parts as much as anything.

Andy

That would be flow rate at 90 percent for a print that works great at 100.
So that would have quite a bit.
I was hoping…

Frank

that would explain the setting the flow rate at 110 to 115.
Why that seemed to fix some of the issues.

Andy

OK

Frank

obviously, you know, with the the cable coming off, it needed to be all changed out anyway.
So I’m not like lamenting that I rebuilt my nozzle or anything.
But it was an interesting learning experience for me.
Um, once I finished that, I decided to go all in on the Dachshund fan, uh, the Cult and…

Chris

Dachshund, like the dog.

Frank

Because we got a Dachshund and I’ve been doing the research on it.
You know, they’re a badger dog.
You used to hunt badgers, these little wiener dogs used to actually fight one of the most vicious animals I’ve ever heard of, which is interesting.

Kevin

And that’s why Dachshunds are so vicious themselves.

Frank

I don’t know.
This one, granted, he’s 12 years old, but he’s about the least vicious animal you could ever encounter.

Kevin

But Dachs is the the German word for badger.

Frank

Yeah, that’s what I was finding.
Um, anyway, I printed a slinky Dachshund as one of my first prints.
Um, in, in, uh, uh, the practice of Dachshund, um, uh, belief structures.
Um, and my wife has asked for a few other different prints because this one isn’t very stable, like the legs come in too far or they don’t hold it up so it, it always falls flat on its face and stuff like that.

Andy

Okay.

Frank

Um, I did find, because I, the first version of this, uh, slinky dog that I printed, um, that the, the plastic didn’t like to come loose because the tolerances were so tight.
And I had played with what we had talked about in Cura with the, uh, slicing tolerance, um

Andy

Horizontal expansion.

Frank

Uh, on horizontal expansion, not
I rember I was talking about that yet.
It was like an experimental thing that was like horizontal expansion, but worked in all three dimensions.

Frank

And what it is, is, uh, the video I saw that described it is when you’re printing, if you go in the middle of the, uh, slicing tolerance, um, whenever there’s a curve, it stays right in the middle of, um, like it’s straight up and down or straight corners, right?
90 degree corners.
Yeah.
And if you go in the middle of that, when it, whenever there’s a gap, um, the plastic will push into the other plastic for like a hinge or something that you’re printing, and if you play with it and go with exclusive or inclusive, it will shift to either the outside of that, um, I’m thinking in terms of Calculus.

Andy

Like a circle or the arc?

Frank

Yeah, it’s because the middle is basically the middle of where the nozzle is supposed to be for those, uh, think like, uh, like the Egyptian pyramids, how it steps all the way up, even though it looks like a, you know, a perfect 45 degree angle.
Um…

Andy

yeah.
Okay.

Frank

So when it’s sliced, if you go, I can’t remember now if it’s inclusive or exclusive, but it’ll shift either to the center of the nozzle being on the corner at the edge or the center of the nozzle being on the inside corner of that steps.
Okay.

Frank

And it’s supposed to make it so that when you have something print in place, like a hinge, that it’ll relax that tolerance a little bit and let the hinge not be so tight.

Andy

Yeah, that’s cool.

Frank

Well, it didn’t have the effect I wanted it to.
So I just kind of put it down.
This was two weeks ago or so when I was trying to print some boxes.
And, um, so with this wiener dog, I didn’t even bother trying to play with any of that.
And what I ended up doing was I made it bigger so that the, uh, the tall or the gap between grew as well and got much better tolerances that way than I did by changing the, the slicing tolerance.
Um

Andy

Ok that’s one way to do it.

Frank

I imagine I could hone it in a little better because it still took a little work to get the legs to move.
Um, but that’s also got me thinking that maybe what I should do is because I’ve got a bunch of different sizes of this box, I should try printing a smaller version of it and then just enlarging it in Cura and see if that helps with the tolerances for the hinges.

Andy

That’s a good idea.
Um, have you played with the horizontal expansion on those at all?

Frank

I have not.

Andy

That might be another thing that might want to look into doing for the hinges too.
It kind of, it kind of seems to, it keeps the, the overall dimensions of the model, but it squeezes the model down.
So where you’ve got like a, like a loop that would go around a hinge, it would make the loop bigger on the inside and, um, the outside would also shrink, making the plastic in the middle thinner, but, uh, that, that’s, that’s worked for me on a couple of, of interference prints like that that I’ve done that were a, uh, like solid or a, um, being a verse model, but horizontal expansion has been the one I played with on that one.
And that does seem to fix most of my problems that I’ve had on those.
Might be something just worth looking into a little bit.

Frank

Yeah, I’ll, I’ll definitely play with that one.
Um, otherwise I really haven’t done anything this week.
I’ve been, uh, voluntold that I have lots of plans this month.
And, uh, so, so those have been taking precedence because this is my wife’s favorite month of the year.

Andy

Yeah.

Frank

So the activities are taking precedence over my, uh, my hobbies.

Kevin

I’m, I’m reminded of, uh, a song that is, it’s in Dutch, but it’s all about a guy breaking up with his girlfriend and going to the bar to celebrate.
Um, and there’s a couple of lines in there that it says, uh, translated into English is, um, from now on, his salary is only going to be used up by one person.
Um, or it said the word would translate to decayed, but anyway, uh, and then it’s the very next thing is, um, and obligatory, obligatory parties are in, in… all at once cut in half.
So, uh, he’s like, Hey, there’s like, so the benefits here are his salary is now only going to be used up by one person.
And, um, mandatory parties are suddenly just cut in half.

Andy

Okay.

Frank

Mandatory events.

Kevin

Yeah.
You’ve got the parties that you have to go to because you’re you, but then you’ve got the things that you have to go to because your significant other has to go to them and you’re expected to go along.
And so it’s very, it’s, it’s a very apropos statement in at Christmas time when we got all sorts of company parties and, and friend group parties and just all these parties and, uh, it’s December is not a very good month to be an introvert.

Frank

No, it’s not

Andy

Ain’t that the truth.

Kevin

I struggle with this after a lot of years.

Frank

Indeed me too.

Andy

Yeah.

Frank

Well, uh, why don’t we go ahead and shut this down and we’ll, uh, let Kevin get ready for his thing and go on with our other things too.
He pushed for us to start just so everybody knows.
But I agreed with him entirely.
So I don’t want to put him in front of the bus on his own on that one.

Andy

Yeah.

Kevin

Right.

Frank

I mean

Chris

if Kevin jumps in front of a bus, we’re all jumping in front of a bus.

Frank

No

Andy

If he jumps in front of a bus.
There’s probably a good reason for it.
We all should probably be following suit.

Frank

No, if Kevin jumps in the bus, I’m going to look where he was looking before he ran.

Andy

There you go.
Probably the best.

Frank

Anyway, Kevin’s, we weren’t talking about Kevin jumping in front of the bus.
Anyway, we were talking about me throwing him in front of the bus.

Kevin

Right.

Frank

There is a subtle difference.

Kevin

Although, in my ninth grade yearbook, one of my friends did write, Hey, Kevin, you’re so cool.
You’re my hero.
I hope you get hit by a bus.

Andy

What?

Kevin

Take care you walking deathtrap.

Andy

I like that.

Frank

Huh.
Apropos of nothing.

Chris

Teenagers are weird.

Kevin

Yeah.
But I mean, you knew him, Chris.
I’ll tell you after the show.

Chris

Well, we were all weird as teenagers and I don’t think we got much better as adults.

Frank

I know I didn’t.
Actually, I was having this conversation.
It’s not that I can’t do the crazy stuff anymore.
The crazy stuff doesn’t interest me anymore.

Andy

Oh, really?

Kevin

Right.

Frank

Yeah.
Whatever.
And so instead, you know, I do the podcast with friends from high school.

Kevin

Well, friends from high school and me.

Frank

Oh, I count you as a friend from high school, even though I’ve known you nown your wife longer than I’ve known you.

Kevin

Well, I mean, we were in our 20s when we met.
So there’s that.

Frank

Yeah.
And she’s best friends with the girl that baby sat me when I was a child.
Yeah.

Andy

I didn’t know you guys went that far back.

Frank

When I first met Kevin, I was like, oh, why do I know this girl?

Chris

Anyway, it’s a small world after… censored.

Frank

Especially now.
All right.
I didn’t mean to get us to be real.
I didn’t help at all.
Let’s do this.
Wrap it up.
We’d like to thank everyone listening to the very end

Chris

the very, very end.

Frank

If you like what you hear, please give us all the stars and subscribe.
We are available through a wide variety of podcast vendors.
And so we’re easy to share.
If you have feedback, you can find us in our Facebook group, Amateur3DPod.
And you can email us at Franklin, Kevin, Andy, or Chris @amateur3dpod.com.
Or you can email us a panelist@amateur3dpod.com.
Kevin Buckner wrote the music for this episode.
Open A.I.’s Whisper completed the heavy lifting for the transcripts, which you can find linked into the description.
Our panelists are me, Franklin Christensen, and my friends, Kevin Buckner, Chris Weber and Andy Cottam.
Until next time, we’re going offline.

Kevin

Keep your FEP tight.

Andy

Always use hairspray.

Chris

Support your local farmer.
Print with milk.

Andy

That’s great.
Oh, jeez.

Frank

Isn’t that how you get cheese?
I’ve been misunderstanding how you get cheese all these years.

Kevin

Cheese is just a loaf of expired milk.

Chris

Apparently you might be able to print with that, too.

Frank

I mean, cheese melts at a lower temperature than plastic, especially American cheese.

Andy

I could probably take a brick of cheddar and cut some holes with a laser cutter and turn it into swiss.

Frank

Not quite how that works, Andy, but we’ll go with it.

Andy

I’ll prove you wrong.
I’ll prove you all wrong.

Frank

Good luck with that.
I’m never wrong.

Andy

Nope.

Frank

Are you disagreeing with me?
Not at all.
I would never do no such thing.
I really like the correct arrangement to my face.

Chris

Wait, Andy doesn’t have to take his printer apart to make Jesus toast now.

Andy

Hey, You’ve got a good point.
I should do that.
Next time I have it out, I’m totally making Jesus toast.
There’s no reason why that wouldn’t work.

Chris

Right?

Andy

I’m going to toast bread with my laser cutter.
It’s awesome.

Chris

It’s Christmas.
Let’s do it.

Andy

Yeah.
I like that idea a lot.

Frank

I think Kevin is struggling to process even more than I am at this point.
It’s too bad I didn’t make it into the episode.
I don’t think I’ve ever done a title based off of the post-conversation.